Final New Hampshire Democratic Primary Debate

BRADLEY: Thank you.

BRADLEY: No, I don't think so.

BRADLEY: I think that the key thing when it comes to education, generally, is to conceive of education as beginning at birth, extending through every life stage, and being for everyone.

BRADLEY: This morning I was in Manchester at the Y, at an early child care program. The first three years of life are decisive in terms of early brain formation. That's why I think you begin investing in education in those first three or four years. I think then it's important to increase the Head Start slots by 400,000, because that prepares kids to go to school.

And then I think it's very important to—when you get to elementary and secondary, that the biggest thing that the federal government can do in the next decade, is to try to put 600,000 new, qualified teachers in classrooms in this country, and 2,000 after- school programs for kids, so between 3:00 and 8:00 they have some place to go.

Then a major investment in community colleges, and more funding for special education, which would reduce the property tax burden on New Hampshire property tax payers.

BRADLEY: Sure. I don't think that vouchers are the answer to the problems of public education. I voted for it several times when I was in the Senate as an experiment. There are now two experiments going on. I don't think it's the answer to the problems of public education.

BRADLEY: Judy, I think if you looked at my record in the United States Senate you'd see a lot of fights that I made that were very successful. For example, in the early 1980s I began to fight for tax reform, which was lower rates and fewer loopholes, creating a tax system where equal incomes paid equal taxes. People said that could never happen—that that would never happen because the special interests would stop it. Well, we overcame the special interests and we made it happen.

Once I—in the latter part of my terms in the Senate, I discovered that women were being pushed out of the hospital in 24 hours after giving birth. I got angry, and I introduced legislation, I marshalled public support, 85,000 letters came into my office, and over a 15-month period we worked hard until we passed the law.

I fight for my convictions and for the things I believe in. I don't believe in politics as usual where it's simply charge-countercharge. I believe in fighting for principle.

And I can guarantee you one thing. In the fall against the Republican there'd be a lot to fight about.

BRADLEY: No, I'm not, Judy. I just think politics should be a case of belief and not tactics; that it should be a case of saying what you're for, not what you're against; it should be a matter of bringing issues to the fore, not demeaning your opponent.

And, unfortunately, that has not been reciprocated on the other side in this campaign.

BRADLEY: Both of those...

BRADLEY: Both of those...

BRADLEY: Well, first let me say that during the Reagan era, I was the point man in the Democratic Party against the Reagan efforts. I went on national television opposite Ronald Reagan in the passage of the tax bill. On the budget, I was the head of the task force of the Democratic Party in the United States Senate. And my job was to try to diminish the effect of those tax cuts— of those budget cuts.

We succeeded in doing that. Ultimately, I voted for the Reagan budget. But the fact is, if people had voted as I did for the Reagan budget and against the tax cuts, there would not have been the deficits of the 1980s. And if there hadn't been the deficits of the 1980s, that means we would have had higher growth. That means we would have had more revenue coming in.

And that means we would have been a stronger country.

So, I voted for those but it was an act of leadership, I think. Once again, getting ahead of the curve here, I warned that if people didn't do that, we'd have deficits. We had deficits. And those deficits stole from the poor much more than they lost through the budget cuts. It stole from the poor and from the middle class much more than they lost through any budget cuts.

BRADLEY: Well, let me just say, when Al accuses me of negative campaigning, it reminds me of the story about Richard Nixon. It said Richard Nixon's the kind of politician who would chop down a tree and stand on the stump and give a speech about conservation.

BRADLEY: It just won't fly.

BRADLEY: Al, Hillary Clinton said the other day that consistency on fundamental issues of principles is important. She went on to express how she and Rudy Giuliani have the same position on choice now, but that he had changed his position to arrive there and she had always been there.

My question to you is, do you think she's wrong?

BRADLEY: Well, you still didn't answer the question, whether consistency on fundamental issues of principle is relevant. I think they are. And I can understand why you wouldn't answer the question, because when you were in the Congress, you had an 84 percent right-to- life voting record.

And it seems to me that this is an issue that requires somebody to know where they stand, and to know why they stand where they stand. I respect people who have a different view than I do. I respect your position that you have. People can evolve, but your campaign shouldn't go around saying that you've always been for a woman's right to choose, because the record shows you have not.

BRADLEY: That's not true.

BRADLEY: You voted...

BRADLEY: ... the other way.

BRADLEY: Al, that's not true.

BRADLEY: I voted against it because I didn't think it was in the best interest of the country. And I'm wondering why you think it's working so well when, because of welfare reform, there are one million children in this country today who don't have health insurance—who've lost their health insurance because of welfare reform.

I also think that, although the welfare rolls have dropped, that people in deep poverty have increased.

And when I look at this vote, and I say what this vote really was was a gamble with kids for reelection. In October 1996, that's when the vote took place, that's when the discussion took place. And I voted against it because I said I was not willing to take that gamble, and I said the next four years there would be attempts to correct a bad bill. And indeed that's what happens.

Legal immigrants, 60, 70 years old, were kicked off of the welfare rolls because of that bill. The fact is that there were strict limits set at two years and five years that said that if—you only have welfare for two years, then you have to go off, you only have five years in the long—in your entire life.

BRADLEY: And that, I thought, was an onerous burden. And, indeed, that has been changed now. Governors now have flexibility. And, indeed, the legal immigrant provision has been changed.

So the bill I voted against is not the bill now. But I think we need to reform welfare reform. No question about that.

BRADLEY: No, I'm not saying it was a mistake to vote for welfare reform. I'm saying that we need to reform the reform. And, indeed, legal immigrants were excluded; now they're included. That was a change. That was a change.

In addition to that, I think that if a father is forced to pay child support, that that child support ought to go to the mother. Under this bill, where it goes is to the county, to the state government to pay the costs of the system. How do you expect the family who is—a mother trying to support a child to be able to do that when you take the money that comes from the father and give it to the state instead of the child?

And, finally, I think we've got to do something about one million children who don't have any health care in this country because they lost it when they were kicked off of welfare.

BRADLEY: Al, I've offered a health care plan that provides access to universal, affordable, quality health care for all Americans; a health care plan that guarantees children health coverage; a health care plan that gives the elderly a Medicare drug benefit; a health care plan that in effect gives the people earning under $50,000 the equivalent of a $25 billion tax cut.

Now, you have done nothing in this campaign but attack this bill, this suggestion, this idea. In fact, "The Keene Sentinel" said "Gore persists in mischaracterizing Bill Bradley's health care plan."

BRADLEY: The question is, why?

BRADLEY: Well, you have said again tonight that you're for universal health insurance. The problem is we don't get there, anywhere close to getting there. You nibble around the edges, and indeed you have nothing in you budget for the next 10 years to get to universal health insurance. And yet you assert that you want to do that.

In terms of the Medicare drug benefit, let me say the difference between our plans are this. I saw a woman in Des Moines the other day. She had—just let me finish -- $10,000 in pharmaceutical costs. My plan would have cost—would have paid $7,500 of that. Al's plan would have paid $1,000.

BRADLEY: That's a big difference.

BRADLEY: Well, the first thing I'd do is try to loosen his grip on the oil pipeline. The fact is that he has the capacity now, in OPEC, to reduce production, which increases price. That's precisely what's happened now. And that means that prices for New Hampshire residents for home heating oil go up—about $1.74 now.

And as I think about this, I see there are things that an administration could do here to stop that. One would be to let oil out of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That is there in order to have oil enter the market when prices go up; that'll keep prices down.

BRADLEY: The administration hasn't done that.

The second thing that's important for us to do now is to tell Kuwait and Saudi Arabia—two countries that we protected in 1990-91 -- to increase their oil production. If they increase their oil production, the prices would then drop.

And with Saddam Hussein specifically, I think the most important thing is to diplomatically isolate him. I would not let sanctions go. I would keep sanctions on and try to keep him pinned down and surrounded through diplomatic effort.

BRADLEY: Because we're heading to a new age, Judy. We no longer have to fight the Cold War. We have a defense budget that resembles the Cold War defense budget. We don't have to protect Europe against the possibility that Soviet tanks would move across the North German plain.

We have new threats on the horizon. So we can eliminate certain weapons systems that are from the Cold War.

BRADLEY: We can also consolidate bases much more than we have. And we can make tough choices on investment in new technology as opposed to platforms. And we can look ahead to a time where things like the arsenal ship will be moving toward replacing the aircraft carrier and doing so with only 50 people on board.

BRADLEY: This is a very personal question.

(LAUGHTER)

My worst behavior on the basketball court, I suppose, was occasionally holding John Hablecick (ph) when I played the Boston Celtics. And actually, I knew I was doing pretty well in New Hampshire about six months into the campaign when some person came up to me and said—gave me a bumper sticker and it said: Another Celtic Fan for Bradley.

But I also, in addition to holding John Halbecick (ph) occasionally, you know, there's a competition that goes on. There are elbows that are thrown. Occasional blows are thrown. That's part of the game. So if you're asking me about that, I think that's what I would say.

Politics is different. Politics should be something that's higher. Politics should be something that elevates us. It should not be something that drags us down. I'm trying to get beyond politics as usual to a kind of politics that allows Americans to realize that they're a part of shaping our collective futures, by participating and by recognizing that candidates who state what they're for have a better chance of leading truthfully than candidates who do not.

BRADLEY: I've never cried in victory or defeat in basketball. I cried the other day, though, right here in New Hampshire.

I was in a setting where a woman named Kathy Perry (ph) told me her story. She said that she and her husband had four kids.

They both—she had two jobs, her husband had one job. They took one of their children to the doctor and they didn't have health insurance. The doctor diagnosed it as strep. She was leaving and she wrote out the check and her son said to here, I'm sorry, Mom. And she said, Why? He said, I'm sorry because I got sick.

I don't think any child in America should get sick. And when I heard that story, tears rushed to my eyes.

BRADLEY: Well, indeed you've focused on an important aspect of the proposal which is the community college proposal.

Fifty percent of the kids in higher education in America go to community colleges, and yet it only gets five percent of the federal education dollar.

I think that it's critical that we help community colleges, because that is the place where most kids begin the process of higher education, going on to four-year education institutions. That is also where mothers go after they've raised kids so they can learn more, so they can earn more. It's also where workers in our society who have been downsized have to acquire new skills.

So, that is a major investment in community colleges.

In terms of the four-year college, I think we ought to do more of what I call self-reliance loans, which allows people to repay their loan as a percent of their future income, as opposed to having a giant debt that comes down on them as soon as they get out of school.

In addition, I propose college scholarships for 10,000 kids at $7,500 each if they would agree to teach in urban schools...

BRADLEY: Actually I have proposed, through the health care plan, an equivalent of a $25 billion tax cut. Do you know how much that could mean for someone at $30,000 of income? At $30,000 in income, that could put almost $3,000 in that family's pocket. And if they had health insurance, they could spend that money on college education for their children.

BRADLEY: Al, you've made a proposal that we take 30-second ads off the air. And you know, that translation is—you're well known, I'm not. You take them off, you win. And I look at that, and I say, I understand why you did it. But the real problem is negative ads, not 30-second ads. And the AP Ad-Watch called one of your ads unfair and misleading.

And my question to you is, why should we believe that you will tell the truth as president, if you don't tell the truth as a candidate?

BRADLEY: Al, if you talk about a flyer that was immediately repudiated that went to a couple hundred people versus an advertisement on television, that's like comparing a gnat to an elephant. You're the elephant of negative advertising here. And the fact of the matter is—don't take my word, take "The Lawrence Eagle Tribune." It said—"Lawrence Eagle Tribune" which said that he was a master of spin and smear.

BRADLEY: No

BRADLEY: In politics, sometimes people make misleading statements because they don't know any better. You know better.

BRADLEY: You know better. You know better, and you continue to...

BRADLEY: ... do what you know is untrue. And that does not respect the voter of New Hampshire.

BRADLEY: That's not right. That's not incorrect.

BRADLEY: Both of those things are incorrect. That is not correct. The fact of the matter is, as I said earlier, if you had added $10,000 in pharmaceutical costs for prescription drugs, your plan would cap that at $1,000...

BRADLEY: Wait, wait—your plan would stop that at $1,000.

BRADLEY: I'm sorry. This is a tactic. See this is a tactic. Your—your plan would cap it at $1,000 and mine would pay $7,500.

BRADLEY: This is the difference between going for big ideas and nibbling around the edges.

BRADLEY: Al, I think we need a fresh start in Washington. And I read in "The Boston Globe" today the following thing. It said, "What's wrong with Washington is it's in the vice-like grip of moneyed special interests and their lobbyists." And it went on to say that you're the favorite of the Washington lobbyists.

So my question to you is, how can you be fighting for the people when you're working hand-in -love with the special interests who essentially are fighting against the people?

BRADLEY: Well, all I can say is it's politics as usual. And that's a thousand promises and a thousand attacks. That's what's been your campaign—a thousand promises, a thousand attacks. A promise to every little special interest group; attack, attack, attack every day. That's been the nature of it.

And quite frankly, I think the people are fed up with it. But from your standpoint nothing have changed. Lobbyists are still in charge in Washington.

BRADLEY: But you still raise soft money.

BRADLEY: What your wrong about, and how you've mischaracterized this, is saying New Hampshire would have $150.

That's where you're wrong. New Hampshire will have more.

I'm not going to do a health care program that doesn't give people who are on Medicaid now, largely adults, access to several plans in every state. The legislation will be written, that's what will happen. The figure of $150 does not apply to New Hampshire, it applies to other states.

Let's take, for example, what you've done on Medicaid. Since—over the last seven years Medicaid HMOs in this country have gone from 14 percent to 54 percent of all Medicaid recipients. And what—the average of the Medicaid recipient, all of them, has a fee of under $150. Under $150. So this can easily be done.

The big difference is here, by raising this issue you are trying to get away from facing up to the fact that I've offered a proposal that would provide access to quality affordable health care for all Americans; would provide a Medicare drug benefit for the elderly that's much more generous than yours, much bigger than yours; and would indeed guarantee all children health coverage in this country; and on top of that...

BRADLEY: ... provide money to middle-class people to be able to pay for their health insurance.

BRADLEY: That is what you're trying to cover up by this misrepresentation on $150.

BRADLEY: I'm not changing my plan.

BRADLEY: There are any numbers of states...

BRADLEY: Tennessee is one.

BRADLEY: There are any number of them. There are 24 states...

BRADLEY: There are 24 states that have a waiver from the national government in order to do Medicaid, and that is under $150.

Now what I think is going on here is pretty clear. In politics, as I said, people make misleading statements. And most of them do it because they don't know better. You know better. You're know what you're saying is not true. And quite frankly, I wonder whether if you're running a campaign, that is saying untrue things, whether you'll be able to be a president that gets people's trust.

If you're running a campaign that's divisive, that's the kind of presidency that you will also have.

BRADLEY: I think—I think they deserve—people deserve...

BRADLEY: ... more respect.

BRADLEY: My response is that this country has wanted universal health insurance for 40 years. I am the first candidate that is out there in this campaign, offering them universal access to quality, affordable health care.

You have said you want universal health insurance, but you have no way of getting there. And so, instead of facing up to that fact and admitting to people that you have no way to get to universal health insurance, you decide to pick this number or that number out of a proposal, when in fact the proposal will cover people in this country.

BRADLEY: Well, let me correct the record. They're not my biggest contributors. Over 18 years in the United States Senate, anybody associated with a pharmaceutical company contributed less the one percent of all the money I raised. In the presidential campaign, it's less than three-tenths of a percent.

If you take a look at my drug program—prescription drug program, what you find is it has a preference stated for generic drugs. That may give the pharmaceutical companies heartburn.

The fact here is, campaign finance reform is the most important thing we can do in this country. It will break down the wall that's come between the people and their elected representatives, it should be no soft money, public financing of elections and free television time in the last six weeks of a campaign.

BRADLEY: If we do that, we have a chance of allowing the people's voices to be heard.

BRADLEY: Well, Judy, if you want me to share a little bit with you, I will. I'll give you two books that I like. One is "Victory" by Joseph Conrad. I like that because there's something in their by a character named Heiss (ph), who says, "Woe be it to the man who has not learned while young to put his trust in life." Now what does that tell you about me, running for President of the United States? It tells you that I've read the book.

BRADLEY: In terms of my medical records, I have done the same thing that Al Gore has done...

BRADLEY: Which is to lay out—to lay out the latest doctor's report, put it out there so that people can see, and that is precisely what I've done.

BRADLEY: And my advisers? I think that, I mean, you know, Paul Volcker, Henry Kaufman (ph) -- I can give you a long list of advisers on the economy and in foreign policy and defense.

Now, the fact of the matter is, you don't always talk about all your advisers.

BRADLEY: I've had a great year in New Hampshire. I respect you. Next Tuesday I need your vote.

This isn't about experience, we both have experience. This is about leadership. And I think what a leader does is take big, complicated problems, turn them into public issues, and then make something happen.

BRADLEY: That's what FDR did. That's what Lyndon Johnson did. And that's what I want to do on the issues that confront us today in the area of health, education, campaign finance reform, gun control and help for working families.

As I look at this campaign and think about what we can be as a country, I'm buoyed with optimism. We're at the beginning of a tremendous phase of growth in this country. And any politician can pick a fight...

BRADLEY: ... but only a leader can move a country forward.

Copyright 2000 Federal Document Clearing House, Inc. FDCH Political Transcripts.